Comics Bulletin logo
Search
  • Columns
    Random
    • The Comicmobile (Part 4)

      Chase Magnett
      February 21, 2002
      Columns
    Recent
    • The Full Run: Usagi Yojimbo – The Wanderer’s Road Part 2

      Daniel Gehen
      December 4, 2020
    • The Full Run: Usagi Yojimbo – The Wanderer’s Road Part 1

      Daniel Gehen
      October 30, 2020
    • Comictober 2020: DRACULA MOTHERF**KER

      Daniel Gehen
      October 27, 2020
    • What Looks Good
    • Comics Bulletin Soapbox
    • The Full Run
    • Leading Question
    • Top 10
    • The Long-Form
    • Jumping On
    • Comics in Color
    • Slouches Towards Comics
  • Big Two
    Random
    • Collecting Profile: Batwoman

      Chase Magnett
      October 5, 2019
      Big Two, Collectibles, DC Comics
    Recent
    • 4.5

      DCeased: Dead Planet #7 Presents a Hopeful Future (Review)

      Daniel Gehen
      January 22, 2021
    • Retro Review: Detective Comics #826 Remains a Holiday Classic

      Daniel Gehen
      December 3, 2020
    • Stan Lee

      nguyen ly
      November 7, 2020
    • DC Comics
    • Big Two Reviews
    • Marvel Comics
  • Indie
    Random
    • 4.5

      Review: Oblivion Song #1

      Chase Magnett
      March 7, 2018
      Image, Reviews, Reviews
    Recent
    • Review: The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Cartoonist

      Daniel Gehen
      December 14, 2020
    • The Full Run: Usagi Yojimbo – The Wanderer’s Road Part 2

      Daniel Gehen
      December 4, 2020
    • 4.5

      TMNT: The Last Ronin #1 Lives Up to the Hype (Review)

      Daniel Gehen
      October 29, 2020
    • Reviews
    • Archie Comics
    • Boom! Studios
    • Dark Horse
    • IDW
    • Image
    • Oni Press
    • Valiant
  • Reviews
    Random
    • 4.0

      Breaking Bad 5.04 "Fifty-One"

      Chase Magnett
      August 10, 2012
      Reviews
    Recent
    • 4.5

      DCeased: Dead Planet #7 Presents a Hopeful Future (Review)

      Daniel Gehen
      January 22, 2021
    • Review: The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Cartoonist

      Daniel Gehen
      December 14, 2020
    • Retro Review: Detective Comics #826 Remains a Holiday Classic

      Daniel Gehen
      December 3, 2020
    • Singles Going Steady
    • Slugfest
    • Manga
      • Reviews
    • Small Press
      • Reviews
      • ICYMI
      • Tiny Pages Made of Ashes
  • Interviews
    Random
    • Nick Simmons: Bringing the Revenants to Life

      Chase Magnett
      July 23, 2009
      Interviews
    Recent
    • Interview: Jon Davis-Hunt Talks SHADOWMAN

      Daniel Gehen
      June 8, 2020
    • Interview: Becky Cloonan talks DARK AGNES and Her Personal Influences

      Mike Nickells
      March 4, 2020
    • Simon Roy

      Interview: Simon Roy on His Inspirations and Collaborations on PROTECTOR

      Mike Nickells
      January 29, 2020
    • Audio Interview
    • Video Interview
  • Classic Comics
    Random
    • Small-Press Super-Heroes of the '80s: Zot!

      Chase Magnett
      November 14, 2014
      Classic Comics Cavalcade, Columns
    Recent
    • Countdown to the King: Marvel’s Godzilla

      Daniel Gehen
      May 29, 2019
    • Honoring A Legend: Fantagraphics To Resurrect Tomi Ungerer Classics

      Daniel Gehen
      February 15, 2019
    • Reliving the Craziest Decade in Comics History: An interview with Jason Sacks

      Mark Stack
      January 2, 2019
    • Classic Comics Cavalcade
    • Classic Interviews
  • News
    Random
    • article placeholder

      Comics, Harassment, and Alcoholism

      Chase Magnett
      October 2, 2015
      Dark Horse, Indie, News
    Recent
    • 2020 Ringo Awards Winners Announced

      Daniel Gehen
      October 26, 2020
    • BAD IDEA Announces 2021 Publishing Slate

      Daniel Gehen
      September 29, 2020
    • A Full Replay of NCSFest 2020 is now Available

      Daniel Gehen
      September 15, 2020
    • Press Release
    • Kickstarter Spotlight
  • Books
    Random
    • Raymond Briggs, Part Four

      Chase Magnett
      November 6, 2015
      Books, The Long-Form
    Recent
    • Collecting Profile: Disney Frozen

      CB Staff
      November 22, 2019
    • Collecting Profile: NFL Superpro

      CB Staff
      August 31, 2019
    • “THE BEST OF WITZEND” is a Wonderful Celebration of Artistic Freedom

      Daniel Gehen
      September 15, 2018
    • Review: ‘Machete Squad’ is a Disappointing Afghan Memoir

      Jason Sacks
      July 31, 2018
    • Review: ‘Out of Nothing’ is the Antidote to Our Sick Times

      Jason Sacks
      July 23, 2018
    • Review: ‘Bizarre Romance’ Shows Rough Edges in the Early Days of a New Marriage

      Jason Sacks
      July 10, 2018
What's New
  • Collecting Profile: If I win Powerball, I will buy Amazing Fantasy 15
  • DCeased: Dead Planet #7 Presents a Hopeful Future (Review)
  • Collecting Profile: Batwoman
  • Collecting Profile: Daredevil
  • Collecting Profile: Floronic Man
  • Review of Cheetah in Wonder Woman 1984
  • RSS Feed
  • Twitter
  • Facebook
  • Google+
  • Contact Us
  • Write for us!
  • Visit Video Game Break!
Home
Big Two
DC Comics

Leading Questions: Justice League Vs Avengers

Chase Magnett
September 24, 2015
DC Comics, Leading Question, Marvel Comics

Every two weeks in a new installment of “Leading Questions”, the young, lantern jawed Mark Stack will ask Comics Bulletin’s very own Chase Magnett a question he must answer. However, Mark doesn’t plan on taking it easy on Chase. He’ll be setting him up with questions that are anything but fair and balanced to see how this once overconfident comics critic can make a cogent case for what another one obviously wants to hear.

So without any further ado…

Why is the Justice League so much better than The Avengers even when their comics aren’t?

I suspect you may be trying to start this column with a softball, Mark because not only does this question lend itself to a lot of discussion, but your bias is absolutely spot on. That may not seem as obvious as it is given the close link between these two teams over the past five decades though.

The Brave and The Bold #28

The Justice League first appeared in The Brave and The Bold #28 in 1960 and was an instant hit for DC Comics. This is far from the first time that the company would think to combine many of their biggest characters, but it’s notable because it is the first really big team comic as superhero comics became the dominant comics genre at the start of the Silver Age. The Justice League hit the stands, less than a year before Fantastic Four #1, really establishing DC’s biggest competitor until the present.

It took a couple of more years for Marvel to create their own response to the Justice League though. Seeing the massive sales success of this team at DC, publisher Martin Goodman requested that Stan Lee do the same thing with a set of characters at Marvel. Lee and Jack Kirby combined some of their most popular creations and launched The Avengers #1 in September of 1963.

The Avengers #1

Both of these teams were created from the same basic logic: combine a bunch of popular characters in order to sell more comic books. It’s capitalism-based comic book creation at it’s finest. So given the similar origins and the incredibly diverse histories of both teams over half of a century, what differentiates them?

The conception of each of these teams may be the same, but that doesn’t mean they share the same hook. Both Marvel and DC are collecting their most popular superheroes together, but the most popular characters at both of these companies are not equal. Despite how that may sound, this isn’t a DC vs. Marvel thing. It’s not a question of which company has better character, but which company’s characters cohere into a more meaningful, powerful (thematically, not actual superpowers) whole.

The initial Justice League roster was composed of Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter, but it didn’t take long for Superman and Batman to join the team. The theme with all of these characters, at least at this moment in time, is their perfection. Anyone of them is incredibly powerful, but that isn’t what made the characters resonate and stick for so long. They are each a pinnacle of achievement, using their powers to accomplish incredible feats and rarely making mistakes.

DC Comics’ target audience at the time was much younger, and that shows in the presentation of this group. Their exploits are always focused on tackling new external threats by combining the most powerful and skilled individuals on Earth. It’s a superhero team at its most pure, an idealized task force capable of overcoming any conceivable antagonist through cooperation.

The Avengers on the other hand are steeped in a very different philosophy. Marvel Comics, specifically under the artistic leadership of men like Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, focused on the humanity of their characters. They are flawed and often make mistakes, which helped lead to them discovering an older audience on college campuses in the 60s (although Kirby’s robust pop art and Ditko’s trippy landscapes certainly helped as well). The core of these early stories can be found in the individual characters, not the immensity of their capabilities or scope of their threats.

But when you combine a great set of flawed personalities like Iron Man, Thor, The Hulk, Ant-Man, and The Wasp, the whole is not necessarily greater than its parts. Kirby’s work with Thor in Journey Into Mystery and on The Incredible Hulk is still top-notch superhero storytelling. Meanwhile Lee and Don Heck were doing very good work with Iron Man in Tales of Suspense. Yet the early Avengers stories don’t measure up to any of these other series. They are good, but never reach the same level of greatness.

Cap's Cooky Quartet

The personality conflicts and individual struggles within The Avengers were always more interesting than the concept of the team itself. The Avengers as a concept was really just an excuse to get these people in the same room to see what would happen. Even as the series continued to drop its most popular characters and add rogues like Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Black Knight all centered around Captain America, it stayed focus on emphasizing the individual personalities and their interactions.

Justice League on the other hand stands out as a concept that can rest on its own laurels. Much like its most prominent leading man, Superman, it is steeped in idealism. It represents the absolute best of what can be accomplished when people come together and join their mix of skills and knowledge in order to achieve greatness. It is a team that is designed to inspire readers by showing them characters at their best individually and together.

This comparison isn’t just apparent in their respective origins. It’s easy to see in the best examples of both series many, many iterations. For the Justice League it’s Grant Morrison’s run on JLA with various artists. For the Avengers it’s Kurt Busiek and George Perez’s run on The Avengers. You may feel the urge to argue for another run or series as being better, like Hickman’s recent Avengers series or the Giffen and DeMatteis Justice League. Those are great too, but don’t, these are simply the best. ‘Nuff said.

Busiek Avengers

The Avengers is quality throughout and has some iconic storylines, including “Ultron Unlimited”. What stands out most about that series is the individual character arcs though. Ms. Marvel’s fall and redemption, Captain America’s struggle to bring the team together, the return of Wonder Woman, and Scarlet Witch’s love triangle all leap out as being high quality elements. Busiek and Perez had a lock on these characters as individuals and allowed some to come forward as stars in each story. A lot of the fun of the series also lies in Perez, ever prolific, bringing so many characters into each panel. The first adventure is a who’s who of the Marvel Universe. Ultimately, the series is an incredibly fun superhero team book, but its most significant contributions and statements are still focused on individual heroes and villains.

From the very start of Morrison’s JLA, the team was conceived of as a whole. While there is fluctuation in membership throughout, even concluding with every person on Earth gaining superpowers, the core conceit is always that this is the best the planet can offer. There are great character moments across the series, but it never once feels like Superman or Batman or Martian Manhunter’s series. The problems and solutions are always shared. The closest Morrison ever comes to providing a solo adventure lies in JLA #8-9 when Connor Hawke must single handedly save the League from The Key. Yet even this story is focused on Hawke earning a place at the table and proving through incredible feats that he deserves to be part of the League.

JLA #1

Morrison conceived of JLA as a modern pantheon of gods, and that comes across very clearly in the series. While some direct comparisons between Greek gods and DC heroes can be made, they are unnecessary. Each member of the League in this series is there for an obvious reason. Their powers, personalities, and place in the universe all add to the team in a specific and necessary way. Even with immense personas like Batman and Orion walking its halls, JLA always reads like a Justice League comic.

I think that promise is inherent in every iteration of the Justice League. Looking at the Giffen and DeMatteis Justice League, often defined by its penchant for humor, there’s still a sense that each of these characters is gifted and determined to work for something better. Heck, even in the current Justice League series written by Geoff Johns, it’s clear that there’s promise despite the series only ranking between mediocre and abysmally awful since it launched in 2011. Seriously, it’s a series that focuses primarily on DC’s greatest heroes bickering and causing problems (and now misunderstanding Jack Kirby’s Fourth World Saga on a fundamental level), but it always feels like it could only be a few issues away from greatness.

There’s a scene at the very end of Morrison’s JLA that I think summarizes why the team is simply better on a conceptual level. Batman is ready to quit the team, return to Gotham, and focus on “bank robberies and muggings for just a little while.” Then a call comes in that Doctor Destiny is threatening Detroit. Superman turns to Batman and invites him to come along, saying “We’re the Justice League. You know you love it.” On the very next page the entire team with Batman in the center is charging forward, almost at the reader, towards their next adventure. No matter what comes next, the Justice League will always be prepared to bring the best people together to focus on solving the problem and make the world a better place.

Superhero teams don’t get any better than that.

Have a different answer to Mark’s leading question? Share it in the comments below. Or you can read even more here.

We're the Justice League

AvengersGrant MorrisonJLAJustice League

Share On:
Tweet
The Joy of the (Next) Moment: SPX 2015
Classic Interview: Clem Robins Pt. II – Continuing With the Craft

About The Author

Chase Magnett
Comics Theorist

Chase is a mild-mannered finance guy by day and a raving comics fan by night. He has been reading comics for more than half of his life. After graduating from the University of Nebraska–Lincoln with degrees in Economics and English, he has continued to research comics while writing articles and reviews online. His favorite superhero is Superman and he'll accept no other answers. Don't ask about his favorite comic unless you're ready to spend a day discussing dozens of different titles.

Related Posts

  • The Full Run: FINAL CRISIS #7

    Daniel Gehen, Jason Jeffords Jr.
    September 1, 2020
  • The Full Run: Final Crisis #6

    Daniel Gehen, Jason Jeffords Jr.
    July 2, 2020

Support Us!

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Friends of the Site

  • SOLRAD
  • Your Chicken Enemy
  • Psycho Drive-In
  • Women Write About Comics
  • The Beat
  • Loser City
RSSTwitterFacebookgoogleplusinstagramtumblr

Comics Bulletin is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, audible.com, and any other website that may be affiliated with Amazon Service LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate, Comics Bulletin earns from qualifying purchases.

All content on this site (c) 2018 The Respective Copyright Holders